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Josiah E. Dubois, Jr. Oral History Interview


Oral History Interview with
Josiah E. Dubois, Jr.

Special asst. to the Sec. of the Treasury, 1944-45; general counsel of the War Refugee Board, 1944; member of Allied Reparations Commission, Moscow, 1945; member U.S. delegation, Berlin Conference (Potsdam), 1945; dep. chief of counsel for War Crimes in charge of I.G. Farben case, Nuremberg, Germany, 1947-48.

Camden, New Jersey
June 29, 1973
by Richard D. McKinzie

[Notices and Restrictions | Interview Transcript | List of Subjects Discussed]


This is a transcript of a tape-recorded interview conducted for the Harry S. Truman Library. A draft of this transcript was edited by the interviewee but only minor emendations were made; therefore, the reader should remember that this is essentially a transcript of the spoken, rather than the written word.

Numbers appearing in square brackets (ex. [45]) within the transcript indicate the pagination in the original, hardcopy version of the oral history interview.

This oral history transcript may be read, quoted from, cited, and reproduced for purposes of research. It may not be published in full except by permission of the Harry S. Truman Library.

Opened February, 1976
Harry S. Truman Library
Independence, Missouri


[Top of the Page | Notices and Restrictions | Interview Transcript | List of Subjects Discussed]


Oral History Interview with
Josiah E. Dubois, Jr.


Camden, New Jersey
June 29, 1973
by Richard D. McKinzie



MCKINZIE: Perhaps you could tell us to begin, something about how you happened to achieve this career in the civil government?

DUBOIS: Well, I graduated from the University of Pennsylvania law school in '34 and was granted a fellowship and worked under Dean Goodrich of the law school for one year, largely on his work in connection with a restatement of the American Law Institute, that was on torts and on trusts, in particular.

Then, after that I worked for half a year,



again more or less under Dean Goodrich, for the American Institute on the restatement of trusts. Thereafter, the Dean, actually unbeknownst to me, recommended me to the Treasury Department. The Treasury Department had written to him for recommendations. They were looking for young lawyers. I was interviewed and granted the job, and I worked in the Treasury for two and a half years, actually, on, initially, the problems relating to gold. As you may recall, they had withdrawn gold coins, which created a lot of problems. Then I became involved in work which also included the Secret Service.

MCKINZIE: This is before 1938?

DUBOIS: Yes. This was from '36 until, let's say, I guess it would have been the summer of '38, when I resigned and came back here to work with my brother, Herbert, who is one of the partners now in this firm. But he had in the meantime



graduated and had set up a law business here, and it always had been my desire, to eventually go into practice of my own. So I came back here and I worked with him for, I would say, from the fall of '38 until sometime in 1940, when I got a call from one of the lawyers that I had worked with in the Treasury asking if I could come down there to Washington to assist them in work known later as the Foreign Funds Control. It involved, actually, what you might call the beginning of preparation of economic warfare directed against Germany. So, I said, "Well, I can come down for a short while, but I'm trying to set up a private practice."

So, I did go down. I stayed, I guess, for about two and a half or three months, and then returned to my practice. At this point, we were in Camden but not in this building. I got another call early in '41; things were getting hot, would I come back again?



I said, "Well, I'll come back for a short while." Actually, that time it lasted from January of '41 until the latter part of '46, that session. The initial work was a very active job on what I would call the economic warfare program.

And then, not too long after I had been with them, it would have been in '41, the year I returned, they sent me with one other person from the State Department on a two-man mission to Central America.

MCKINZIE: Can you describe a little bit about what happened?

DUBOIS: Yes, certainly. We went to every country in Central America and the idea of our mission, basically, was to try to get the Central American countries to do what we had done, namely (to oversimplify it), freeze all accounts in which the Germans had any kind of an interest, direct or indirect, so that they couldn't use the



monies in those accounts for espionage, sabotage, and spying activities in this country. There was every reason to believe, from all of our intelligence information, that once we had frozen their accounts they increased their activities in Central American and South American countries. The basic function of our mission to all of the Central American countries was not only to find out if we could, by talking to the Embassy officials, what was going on, but also put in effect a freezing program. We took down there various documents showing what we had done and how we had done it. And actually, I guess -- I'm not giving our mission the complete credit, but eventually they did freeze the German goods.

MCKINZIE: Who was the State Department man with whom you went, do you recall his name?

DUBOIS: Yes, John Hooker. I don't know whether he's still alive or not.



MCKINZIE: He hasn't answered our correspondence, so I don't know.

DUBOIS: I haven't heard from him for many, many years.

MCKINZIE: You were dealing mostly with Treasury Department officials in these areas?

DUBOIS: Well, no, not only. In fact we didn't have representatives in most of those Central American missions, the Treasury itself didn't. No, we would talk to the Embassy officials, we'd see the Ambassador himself, if they had an Ambassador. But then, of course, his staff, naturally, also. But, no, we were working together, he was from State and I was from Treasury, and we didn't separate our activities when we got there, we just both of us worked together. Of course, he had easy access to State Department officials and documents. It was a two-man operation but what you might call a single team. I wasn't



sent down there as a Treasury representative to do solely Treasury work, but merely as a Treasury man on this team, because the State Department and the Treasury Department had worked very closely together on this foreign funds control program. They had a unit in the State Department, we had a unit in the Treasury, that handled just that. As a matter of fact, the head of their unit was, or came to be, at least, Donald Hiss. And he was the brother of, as you know, Alger Hiss.

Then after that I, of course, continued my work on the foreign funds control aspect of it. I did become the chief counsel of the Foreign Funds Control Division, and to follow through on that, later Assistant General Counsel and then Assistant to the Secretary of the Treasury. I was also the chief counsel of the War Refugee Board.

Then, my next activity of any major significance



was when they sent me to North Africa. That was about a five or six month's mission. I went over with a group from the State Department, but I then met this other representative from the Treasury, William Taylor, who has since died; and we more or less worked under the guidance of (let me put it that way), so far as Treasury work was concerned, although we had to report to the State Department officials there, Colonel Bernard Bernstein, whom you probably have heard about.

MCKINZIE: He was later in Germany.

DUBOIS: Yes, he became, I guess you'd call it, counsel to General Eisenhower in connection with certain activities in Germany. But he was in North Africa. He was there when I got there. I'd known him from the Treasury days very well. But we still see each other and are very close friends.



The function of the North African trip was actually two-fold, but I guess the main function was the Treasury had issued, or were issuing, this gold seal currency, which you've probably heard about, which they used in North Africa. And the main idea of that, of course, was to dry up the currency which we felt the Germans had more or less secreted in North Africa, and rather than to permit that to be used in connection with our operations we wanted our own currency; and a lot of my legal work had to do with that. Of course, naturally, issuing a new currency had caused a lot of problems which required a lot of drafting and so forth.

MCKINZIE: Whose idea was the gold seal currency? Did you ever understand that?

DUBOIS: To be completely honest with you, I'm not sure whether it was Harry White himself or some



of his aides. I've never been 100 percent sure of that. The idea came out of his office, that's for sure. Who was really the individual who originally thought of that, I couldn't answer that; but you could probably find someone who can. I'm sure Bernie Bernstein could answer that. Have you interviewed him?

MCKINZIE: No, I haven't interviewed him yet.

DUBOIS: He could answer that question for you. And in addition to that, there naturally was a lot of problems following an invasion. Legal problems that relate to financing and that kind of thing. I worked generally on that, also, just general financial problems created by the invasion, and reported on those problems principally to Colonel Bernstein, but also worked with the State Department.

MCKINZIE: Did you travel in North Africa?

DUBOIS: No, we were based in Algiers but I did get



to Casablanca and, of course, other areas of the invaded territory, yes.

MCKINZIE: Almost on their heels coming back.

DUBOIS: Well practically, yes. Oh, we arrived within less than a month after the invasion.

I'll never forget, the very first day I was there they put me in a temporary hotel, and the German planes