Mrs. Walter (Shirley Key) Hehmeyer Oral History Interview

Oral History Interview with
Mrs. Walter (Shirley Key) Hehmeyer

Former receptionist for the Truman Committee and secretary to Associate Chief Counsel Charles Patrick Clark and later secretary to Chief Counsel Hugh Fulton, 1941-43.

Memphis, Tennessee
April 16, 1969
by J. R. Fuchs

[Notices and Restrictions | Interview Transcript | List of Subjects Discussed]

This is a transcript of a tape-recorded interview conducted for the Harry S. Truman Library. A draft of this transcript was edited by the interviewee but only minor emendations were made; therefore, the reader should remember that this is essentially a transcript of the spoken, rather than the written word.

Numbers appearing in square brackets (ex. [45]) within the transcript indicate the pagination in the original, hardcopy version of the oral history interview.

This oral history transcript may be read, quoted from, cited, and reproduced for purposes of research. It may not be published in full except by permission of the Harry S. Truman Library.

Opened December, 1970
Harry S. Truman Library
Independence, Missouri

[Top of the Page | Notices and Restrictions | Interview Transcript | List of Subjects Discussed]

Oral History Interview with
Mrs. Walter (Shirley Key) Hehmeyer

Memphis, Tennessee
April 16, 1969
by J. R. Fuchs


FUCHS: Mrs. Hehmeyer, I wonder if you would start out by telling a little of your background. You might give us your maiden name and any other particulars. I don't want to ask you for your age, but where you were born, I guess would be all right. We'd like your age.

HEHMEYER: Well, I was born in Louisville, Kentucky, and I was the seventh person hired on the Truman Committee. There was just Charles Patrick Clark, and Matt Connelly, and Peter Ansberry, and I'm trying to think of -- it was such a small staff.


A girl named Marge Ebey was the other secretary. And I was hired as Charlie Clark's receptionist and secretary to work in room 317. The only other room the Committee had at that point was downstairs in the basement of the Old Senate Office Building.

FUCHS: How did you happen to come to be in Washington?

HEHMEYER: I lived in Washington, I moved to Washington when I was twelve years old and I grew up in Washington. I went to Western High School in Georgetown, and then I went to George Washington University, and then I went to Temple Business School. And after I had been to business school I had a job in the Interior Department, and one day Marge Ebey called me on the phone and asked me if I would be interested in coming down to work for a committee that was just being formed in the Senate under the direction of Senator Truman and that's how I heard about the job.


FUCHS: How did you happen to know Marge Ebey?

HEHMEYER: She was just a friend of mine I had known in high school.

FUCHS: I see.

HEHMEYER: She has since remarried and I don't know her name now. I went down and talked to Mr. Clark and he hired me and that started the big adventure of the Truman Committee. Of course, Hugh Fulton was there at that time as the Chief Counsel. I didn't meet him for awhile, because he was out of town when I first arrived. My main job was to greet people when they came in and take them around the Senate Office Building and show them how to get to the different offices. Take them to Senator Truman's office. Then the stenographic pool grew to be quite large, I guess there must have been twenty-five girls; and eventually I was put in charge of


the stenographic staff. And after I had had that job for, oh, perhaps nine months, Mr. Hugh Fulton came down one day and asked me if I would be interested in becoming his secretary, and I very much was, and took that job. And that was one of the most wonderful experiences of my life. I couldn't have done it without the girl that worked in the office with me, her name was Marion Toomey. Her father had been a law professor at Georgetown University and Marion herself was a lawyer, which was very unusual at that time because there weren't as many girls going to law school then as there are now. Marion was an enormous help to me. I took shorthand but I had no confidence that I could do Hugh Fulton's work, because he had had a legal secretary working for him that had come to Washington with him from Cravath, deGersdoff, Swain, and Wood, a law firm in New York.


FUCHS: Who was that?

HEHMEYER: I don't recall her name. His office, incidentally, was up on the fourth floor and I just didn't have the occasion to go up there to talk to her too much. I just didn't know her too well.

FUCHS: And you took her place?

HEHMEYER: I took her place.

FUCHS: Why did she leave?

HEHMEYER: I think that she went back to New York City. As I recall that's the reason that she went back. But Marion, instead of taking straight shorthand, worked a stenotype machine. So, the first few weeks I was there when Mr. Fulton would dictate, Marion -- his office was just one large room and our section of the office was separated from his section with bookcases. They were rather tall,


five and a half feet I'd say -- but Marion would sit on the other side of these bookcases and take in stenotype what I was taking in shorthand, which was very kind of her; so that when Hugh Fulton stopped I would race out there and transcribe and Marion could then check my work with what she had taken. I don't know if you could find another friend like that anymore.

FUCHS: Did Hugh Fulton know what you were doing?

HEHMEYER: No, never. Never.

FUCHS: She was then in part a secretary and in part a staff investigator?

HEHMEYER: Yes, she was, and a lovely girl. She married and has several children and I -- unfortunately this all came up so suddenly I don't have time to -- I just can't recall her married name. But she was a fine person. Of course, as the weeks went on


I became more confident and she didn’t have to help me so much. A lot of it was lack of confidence.

FUCHS: What was your name then?

HEHMEYER: Shirley Key.

FUCHS: Now Miss Toomey was on the staff from May '41 to October '44, according to our records. Do you recall any particular investigations that she served on?

HEHMEYER: No, I don't. I was just a legal secretary and a secretary to Mr. Hugh Fulton, and also still a receptionist. A lot of people came to room 449 before they would go down to the hearing room -- to the caucus room. And I would receive them and, again, if they wanted a cup of coffee, take them to the Senate restaurant and see that they were made comfortable and put at ease before they went before the Truman Committee hearings.


FUCHS: Who were some of the people that you...

HEHMEYER: Well, I recall one interesting case was with Henry J. Kaiser. He had come in the office and sat there very nicely and quietly, and I finally said, "Well, I'm sure Mr. Fulton will be ready to see you shortly, but would you put your name on this card and I'll take it in to him." Again, just around the bookcase I would show him a card so that he could hurry up whatever interview he was engaged in. So he wrote his name on this card "Henry J. Kaiser." I thought that was so funny. He had been so nice about waiting. But there were many others. There was Forrestal, from the Navy and there was Mr. Andrew Higgins from New Orleans, the shipbuilder, and -- I can't recall that -- anyone that was going before the Truman Committee usually came to these rooms first, just for a short briefing and to put them at ease.

FUCHS: This was his procedure to generally talk with


those who were going to be...

HEHMEYER: I can't say that they always came, but I think that as a general procedure they did, just as an introduction; of course, not always, but a lot of times they did.

FUCHS: Did many of the other Committee members, Senators come into Fulton's office?

HEHMEYER: Yes, they did. Oh, I remember so well, Senator [Mon C.] Wallgren would come in. He was such a nice Senator from the State of Washington. Senator [James M.] Mead would come in and Senator Tom Connally would wander in every now and then; and, of course, Senator Truman didn't come in too often because Hugh Fulton would go to his office, they were on the phone all the time. Senator Truman was always so polite on the phone. Never demanding and very courteous always. I'm trying to think of some of the other Senators -- Senator [Harley M.]


Kilgore would come in and out, from West Virginia.

FUCHS: Do you recall anything in particular -- any anecdotes about any of these Senators?

HEHMEYER: No, not really. The whole atmosphere was one of -- well, it was a very serious committee because they were investigating the war effort, but I was very young at the time so that I didn't recognize all the seriousness of it, and instead it took on a very glamorous atmosphere. I thought being around all of these glamorous people was exciting and it was, because they were powerful people that you would read about them quoted in the newspaper every day and then they would wander in and out of the office. And then, also, it was a tremendously stimulating experience to work for Hugh Fulton because he was a very smart man. At the time I thought he was an old man and I think that he was thirty-five or thirty-six. And -- but he would come to the office


at -- sometimes 4 o'clock in the morning, and often at five, and never later than seven. He was a very early riser and worker.

FUCHS: What were your hours?

HEHMEYER: Oh, Marion and I got there, as I recall we got there at 8:30 and stayed until 5:00. I think that's correct.

FUCHS: So he was generally there when you got there.

HEHMEYER: Oh, always.

FUCHS: I see.

HEHMEYER: He worked very early in the morning and then he worked late hours in the evening. He was an extremely hard worker. He took time off on the weekends; I know someone once questioned about the fact that he would leave sometimes on Thursday to go to New Jersey where he had his farm in Flemington.


But he had to have some time with Mrs. Fulton and he said that he couldn't see that -- he wasn't one to go from 8:30 to 5:00 and say that the job had to be done from 8:30 to 5:00. If he wanted to do it at 4:30 in the morning, he would do it then and take off what time he felt that it was necessary to spend with Mrs. Fulton. I often had the feeling that she wasn't happy in Washington because the Committee took so much of his time, and then all of the Washington social life -- Jessie was a retiring person and shy, and she loved their farm in Flemington and loved all their friends. She was very hospitable to all of the people on the Truman Committee and entertained them many times, but she just never really seemed happy in Washington. She and Hugh Fulton were on the campaign with Truman and Mrs. Truman in 1948, I guess it was. She was very unhappy then.

FUCHS: Who was?


HEHMEYER: Mrs. Fulton.

FUCHS: '48 presidential or the '44 vice-presidential campaign?

HEHMEYER: Well, I'm not real clear, maybe it was the 1944 vice-presidential campaign, perhaps that was it. I believe -- that probably was, but she came back very unhappy because she felt -- sometimes she felt that maybe Hugh was being used, his -- that he wasn't being recognized for the brain that he was. She was very loyal to him. But this is something that happens in Washington over and over and over and I'm sure the more sophisticated people are the more they adjust to it, and now through the years the wives have become more educated to what Washington is all about and I don't imagine they have these feelings.

FUCHS: Where did they live in Washington?


HEHMEYER: They lived in an apartment on Sixteenth Street. I've forgotten the exact address. It was a small apartment, it was a lovely apartment. Jessie had exquisite taste and their farm she had decorated so beautifully.

FUCHS: You visited the farm?

HEHMEYER: Yes, oh yes. They entertained so many of us, they'd have us up there for the weekend. They had no children so they were very generous about -- they had built a home on that farm, I guess in about 1936 or '37. Apparently it was a lovely home and it burned and it burned to the ground because they only had a volunteer fire department in Flemington, New Jersey. And when the fire department arrived they didn't have any of the facilities to put the fire out. After the house burned to the ground, Jessie and Hugh were two very crestfallen people. We didn't know them then,


but we -- they told us about it. Well, sort of as a present to Jessie, Hugh decided that the foundation of that home could be used to make a lovely swimming pool. So when he first came to work for the Truman Committee he was engaged in this process of having, over the distance by mail and by telephone, and the telephone service to Flemington was just terrible, getting this pool built. And finally they did and, again, in 1941, there weren't too many people with private swimming pools. Do you think? I don't think so.

FUCHS: No, I doubt if there were.

HEHMEYER: There weren't many in Washington, particularly in a remote area. Of course, Flemington, New Jersey is not far from Bucks County; it's beautiful country. So, Hugh thought to make Jessie happy they would start rebuilding the farm. And this is what they did, and she threw her whole heart


into this.

Yesterday morning on television there was a -- or maybe it was this morning, pictures of the needlework that Mary Martin had done and that Mrs. Richard Rogers had done, and a lot of other famous ladies. Well, Jessie Fulton was doing this back in 1941 and all through the war years she did needlework and crewel work. Beautiful knitting and hand work of all kinds, she made beautiful draperies. She was interested in these things, and when she traveled to Europe she always came back with interesting pieces of material you know and different things of this sort. She was very artistic and very talented. And when she was in Washington again she would make herself busy with these sort of things. But the social side of Washington was totally unappealing to her.

FUCHS: Where was she from originally, now?


HEHMEYER: She was from New York. She was from Staten Island.

FUCHS: Staten Island.

HEHMEYER: Yes, and grew up there. And Hugh Fulton was from the state of Michigan I believe.

FUCHS: They met in New York?

HEHMEYER: They met in Staten Island, As I recall, she said that when he went to work for the law firm that I mentioned before -- it's such a long name -- Cravath I'll call it, he rented a room from them and that's how they met, and then they got married and were a very close couple.

FUCHS: Is she still living?

HEHMEYER: Yes she is. And I heard from Jessie up until just about three years ago and then we sort of lost touch. At that time she was having pictures taken so that she could sell their place


in Flemington and perhaps they did, I just don't know, But Hugh Fulton himself was -- it was the first time that I had been introduced to a man who was totally driven by desire for work. It couldn't have been ambition because I don't think that his salary was very big at that time. He later became a wealthy man through his efforts. But he drove himself to -- because of his -- he was so absorbed with the work of the Truman Committee and hero worshipped Mr. Truman. He thought he was one of the finest men he had ever known and spoke of this very openly, He was not a person that could have been devious in any sense, so when he spoke of Mr. Truman he did it -- you could tell he really -- it was deep admiration he had for him. And Mr. Truman's opinion meant a lot to him. He wanted his respect so he worked all the harder to please him. They had a very mutual, fine relationship in that they both respected each other's talent


though they were so different.

FUCHS: What was your first impression of Hugh Fulton? Do you recall?

HEHMEYER: My first impression of him was that I was frightened of him because I -- I wasn't as at ease with him as I was with Senator Truman. Senator Truman was sort of like, one way to express it -- home folks. But Hugh Fulton had a very northern accent from Michigan and he was so business-like, and so -- he was so eager to please him and get everything done exactly right, and I was a little overwhelmed by him, But I found that you could make a mistake and live through it so that was that. I recall one time he had -- I don't recall what position that Mr. Adolph Berle held at this time, but it was an important one and he was working late with Mr. Fulton, and they were working on a joint project for Mr. Truman one evening


and working very late. Mr. Fulton asked me if I would send across the street to Carroll Arms and get them a sandwich and bring in. So I said that I would be delighted. I went across the street and got the sandwiches, and brought them back and Mr. Fulton always thought it was very funny I brought ham, because Mr. Berle was, I gather, an Orthodox Jew. So, I say that you could make mistakes and live through them.

FUCHS: Did you frequently work late?

HEHMEYER: Yes, at the time I wasn't married, of course it didn't matter. And everyone was caught up in the excitement of the work of the Truman Committee. And working late became sort of an excitement, too. We often went down to run off things on the mimeograph machine. It was an old-fashioned one but the whole staff would work. We'd all work down in the basement together getting reports out


or whatever it was that Senator Truman though, should be done.

FUCHS: What was this machine that was available to the…

HEHMEYER: An old mimeograph machines yes.

FUCHS: …to anyone in the Senate?

HEHMEYER: I believe the Truman Committee, we had our own in the Truman Committee room, and now I've forgotten the number of that room, but it was down in the basement of the Old Senate Office Building. But Matt Connelly, and Hugh Fulton himself, would come down and help stuff envelopes. Everybody pitched in if we happened to have a very large job to get out. Matt helped many times and Herb Maletz, we all worked together, Franklin Parks and Mr. [Harold G.] Robinson and Walter Hehmeyer, we all worked. And there was a girl on the staff named


Laura Mayo and a girl named Shirley Ferron, we all worked late and we all -- I don't recall anyone ever complaining about it. I guess that it was because of the excitement of the times that we lived in, and working in the Senate Office Building. And working with the particular group of men we worked with because they inspired you to want to work hard. After I got married I didn't work for the Truman Committee. We thought it wouldn't be wise for a husband and wife to work like that.

FUCHS: When was that?

HEHMEYER: That was February the 13th, 1943.

FUCHS: 1943. Where did you go then?

HEHMEYER: Well, then I stayed home for awhile. Then I got a job with the American Can Company and I was never happy after that, because the Truman Committee had spoiled me so. Then for awhile I


worked for the War Advertising Council that was formed during the war to protect the advertising industry from the Government taking it over, They got all, of the advertising companies to come and contribute their talents, but they had different slogans. You may recall "Woman power has gone to work," or something of this sort. "Lucky Strike green has gone to war," those things. So the different executives from the different ad companies would come to this War Advertising Council in Washington, contribute their time and effort to the war effort and, therefore, the Government didn't ever infringe on any of their private industry, and I think it too is still in existence.

HESS: Who was the head of it?

HEHMEYER: Mr. Theodore Repplier. He had come with them from Young and Rubicam. And he was a very fine man, but again, any unhappiness I had there


was not his fault, it was mine. I was spoiled by the excitement of the Senate Office Building. You can't work there and then easily adjust to working somewhere else. There just isn't the same excitement.

FUCHS: Yes. Were there other persons in the immediate office of Hugh Fulton -- that suite, besides you and Miss Toomey?

HEHMEYER: No, there was just Marion Toomey and Hugh Fulton and myself.

FUCHS: Did you have any direct relationship with Mr. Truman while there or...

HEHMEYER: Very little. I called him on the phone every day when he was in town. I often had contact with Mildred Dryden or some of the other girls in his office. I would take messages back and forth from Mr. Fulton to Mr. Truman. But Mr.


Truman, as I say, he would talk mostly to Mr. Fulton on the phone or Mr. Fulton would go to his office.


HEHMEYER: And that's where they spent most of the time together.

FUCHS: Did you know Victor Messall?

HEHMEYER: Yes, but not well.

FUCHS: Not well. Did you ever hear that he had a pipeline into Mr. Truman's office?

HEHMEYER: No. No, refresh my memory on Victor Messall.

FUCHS: Victor Messall went with Mr. Truman when he was elected in 1934, and became his -- now you'd call him an administrative assistant. Of course, Miss Dryden was secretary in the stenographer sense. But Victor Messall then served with Mr. Truman.


He had been with Congressman Frank Lee in Missouri.

HEHMEYER: Did he have sort of a plump face? I think so.

FUCHS: Well, I'm not good at describing people. He had more of an oval type face, dark; but he served with Mr. Truman and was very active in the 1940 renomination campaign for Mr. Truman and directed that and went to the office, I believe, in Sedalia and worked on that; and then he left Mr. Truman and went into public relations, and, I guess, became what some would call a five percenter.

HEHMEYER: No, I wouldn't know.

FUCHS: And this was right after Mr. Truman was re-elected as Senator.

HEHMEYER: I see. No, I didn't know much about -- I


wouldn't know anything about that.


HEHMEYER: I knew a side of Mr. Truman that perhaps was more of an impression than firsthand knowledge, but I always was impressed with how sweet he was to Mrs. Truman. He was so conscious that -- for instance if she wanted to take a ride, he would leave his office and take her for a ride. If he was going to have people home for dinner he would always call her and notify her of this and he was always joking about the "boss," calling Mrs. Truman the "boss." They seemed to have such a fine relationship.

FUCHS: Was she in the office from time to time?

HEHMEYER: She would come in from time to time. She'd come by and pick him up to take him for a ride at lunch time.


FUCHS: I see. At lunch time?

HEHMEYER: Yes, they liked to go for a ride at noon. At least as I recall it, that's when they took a ride; and then she was -- I just always had the impression that Mrs. Truman came first and her happiness was very important to him. That wasn't true of all of the Senators on the Hill.

FUCHS: You wouldn't care to name names would you?

HEHMEYER: No, I wouldn't.

FUCHS: Were you ever entertained by the Trumans?

HEHMEYER: No, not other than just they had something for the whole Truman Committee.

FUCHS: Did they have several affairs like that?

HEHMEYER: I'm trying to think, there was a Truman Committee party, but I don't think it was at the


Trumans. I can’t remember -- I do remember where it was, but I'd just as soon not comment on it, I don't remember too many details.

FUCHS: All, right. Now, you saw Hugh Fulton and his wife socially. Was this just after you were married?

HEHMEYER: My mother entertained Mr. and Mrs. Fulton in our home, and then Mr. and Mrs. Fulton entertained me in their home and Marion Toomey, also, and all of the Truman Committee. They had us all over. They had a small apartment so they didn't have us all at the same time, but they would have different groups over. They didn't discriminate, they were very generous in their entertaining. Has anyone spoken to you about Bill Boyle and Mrs. Boyle?

FUCHS: I would be happy to have anything that you


might add about...

HEHMEYER: He was close to Mr. Truman.

FUCHS: Was he entertained by Hugh Fulton?

HEHMEYER: Oh, now I don't recall whether he was or not. I recall one party where Bill Boyle was there and Mrs. Boyle and I know he was very close to Senator Truman.


HEHMEYER: And he had such a nice wife also, Mrs. Boyle. She was just a lovely lady. I always thought she was so pretty. You realize I was young at the time and I still have more impressions than knowledge, but I always felt that he was more of a politician than a knowledgeable man, as I thought Mr. Fulton was. But Mr. Boyle was such a pleasant person, he must have been a very good politician.


FUCHS: What about...

HEHMEYER: I guess that it takes both.

FUCHS: Yes, that's right, Matthew Connelly, do you have any recollection that might be of interest about him?

HEHMEYER: Oh, yes, I liked Matt Connelly very much. He was one of the first people that I met when I went to work there and he had a way of putting the secretary -- he was friendly and he was charming to people and he tried to put people at ease. Particularly the girls that came there to work if they were going to be frightened by taking dictation from the Chief Counsel or one of the other lawyers, There was a Mr. Henry Stix that was there when I went there also. I had forgotten that.

FUCHS: What was his position?


HEHMEYER: He was an investigator. And he was there when I went there, And I remember when Matthew Connelly introduced me to him and I was supposed to take dictation from him one day I was just really scared. He had the same sort of a -- what's the word I want -- not mysterious, but the same personality that Dean Rusk had, he didn't reveal himself. You wanted to do your best for him but he wasn't very communicative. But Matt was the one that would say, "Well, you've been called to the stenographic pool to take dictation and don't let it worry you, be at ease, it'll all work out all right." You always knew what they were writing about was very important so you wanted to get it right. Matt was a friendly man and he worked very hard, I often wonder if people know how hard he really worked. He was working not only on the investigative side, but he seemed to me he was always at a go-between in helping people get


along, if there was any dissension among the staff members it would be Matt who would try to alleviate any of this tension. He was a very likeable man.

FUCHS: Did you know his wife?

HEHMEYER: Yes, I did.

FUCHS: Was she living in Washington?

HEHMEYER: Yes, she did. I think her name was Doris Connelly. I had the feeling that she too had gotten a little bewildered by some of the time that the Committee demanded of her husband, and small wonder. Were I now in the same position, that Walter would have a position that demanded that much of his time I'm not too sure that I would be happy about it. But the work was interesting, the work was consuming, and the work was important, and I often felt sorry for the wives that were unhappy sometimes with this. Understandable now.


FUCHS: Have you any impressions of Charles Patrick Clark?

HEHMEYER: Yes, I thought he had a dual personality. He could be very likeable, but he could be very unkind. He was an egotist and he -- I felt always that he was acting a role, acting a part. He was so impressed with the name Charles Patrick Clark and he wanted to be sure you got it spelled correctly and that you put the Patrick in there and that you knew exactly who it was. He was a dandy; and he was far more interested in Charles Patrick Clark than he was in Senator Truman, I thought. When I first went to work for him it used to amuse me that he had more flourishes and fanfare than the Senator did as far as receiving and making telephone calls. I would have to announce him no matter whom I called, and that used to sort of amuse me. Senator Truman would just pick up the phone himself and call. But Charles Patrick


Clark was a controversial man. I was always stunned that he became so close, I heard, to Franco I think or the Spanish government, wasn't it, and made such a quite a lot of money as a representative in Washington?


HEHMEYER: I'll always be bewildered how he did that because he wasn't basically what I would call an intelligent man. He was a flamboyant person and he was -- I guess men would understand him, I didn't.

FUCHS: You didn't feel that there was enough substance there?

HEHMEYER: No. He should have been an actor. He acted a role. He would have looked good in a top hat and a cape with a cane, and step into a carriage with eight horses. He needed all the accouterments of a grand entrance and a grand person. He should have been a Count or a Duke. And he would have


been marvelous at the intrigue in some palace. This was his forte. But I always felt that he was miscast in the role of working for Senator Truman. I always wondered how he got there.

FUCHS: Do you feel that he did a service for the Committee?

HEHMEYER: Well, obviously the people that ran the Committee thought so and I as a secretary couldn't really be a judge of that. But as a girl and a grown lady, I still say he was a very mixed up man. He would strut. Senator Truman would walk into the hearing room; Charles Patrick Clark would have to be announced. We all knew that he was there. He had everything but the trumpets.

FUCHS: Very good. Have you any recollections of Rudolph Halley?

HEHMEYER: Oh, yes. I liked Rudy Halley very much and his wife Grace. And they had small children at that


time when they lived in Washington. Rudy was a very ambitious man and just as bright, you couldn't ask for a brighter young man. He was -- again at the time I thought Rudy was old -- he must have been thirty-two or three. I don't know how old he was. He was very young and very bright. It was a pleasure to -- it was educational to sit in a room and listen to that man's mind work, or to take dictation from him, or to see him get a problem and try to solve it. He was an interesting man. He was, as I say, ambitious, though, and obvious to me, so, he must have been ambitious if it was obvious to me, because I wasn't thinking, as I say, in those terms. And again, such a hard worker. Hours meant nothing to Rudy. He would work and work. and work and when everybody had left he would still be working. And again, got there early in the morning. Totally dedicated to his position with the Committee and its function.


FUCHS: I guess George Meader didn't come until after you had left?

HEHMEYER: Oh, I knew George Meader.

FUCHS: Oh, you knew George Meader?

HEHMEYER: Yes, now I don't know if George was on the Committee or I met them socially, George and his wife, through the Fultons. George Meader was also from Michigan, and he and his wife, of course, knew the Fultons; and I don't really know how I knew George Meader, maybe we saw them socially after I left the Committee. I guess that he was a friend of Walter's.