Oral History Interview with
Leon H. Keyserling
Member of legal staff, Agricultural Adjustment
Admin., 1933. Secretary and legislative assistant to Sen. Robert F. Wagner
(New York), 1933-37. Gen. counsel, U.S. Housing Authority, 1937-38; deputy
administrator and gen. counsel, 1938-42; acting administrator, 1941-42.
Acting commissioner, Federal Public Housing Authority, 1942. Gen. counsel,
National Housing Agency, 1942-46. Vice chairman President's Council of
Economic Advisers, 1946-50; chairman, 1950-53.
Washington, D. C.
May 3, 1971
by Jerry N. Hess
[Notices and Restrictions | Interview
Transcript | Additional Keyserling Oral History
This is a transcript of a tape-recorded interview conducted for the Harry
S. Truman Library. A draft of this transcript was edited by the interviewee
but only minor emendations were made; therefore, the reader should remember
that this is essentially a transcript of the spoken, rather than the written
Numbers appearing in square brackets (ex. ) within the transcript indicate the pagination in the original, hardcopy version of the oral history interview.
This oral history transcript may be read, quoted from, cited, and reproduced
for purposes of research. It may not be published in full except by permission
of the Harry S. Truman Library.
Opened January, 1975
Harry S. Truman Library
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and Restrictions | Interview Transcript
| Additional Keyserling Oral History Transcripts]
Oral History Interview with
Leon H. Keyserling
Washington, D. C.
May 3, 1971
by Jerry N. Hess
HESS: To begin this morning, Mr. Keyserling, will you give me a little
of your personal background? Where were you born, where were you educated?
Tell me a little about yourself?
KEYSERLING: I was born in Charleston, South Carolina, in January of 1908,
but I never lived there, and I was just in the hospital there. The first
eight years of my life were spent on St. Helena Island, which is a sea
island off the coast of South Carolina, the southern part. There were
ten thousand Negroes living on the island at the time and five or six
After spending my first eight years there during which I hardly went
to school as there were none, but was educated at home, we moved over
to the metropolis of Beaufort across the river, which had two thousand
people, about half whites and half Negroes. I went from the
fourth grade through high school there, graduating in 1924.
My father was very active in a wide variety of enterprises. In the 1890s
he had helped to reintroduce sea island cotton in South Carolina, which
had been grown there before the War Between the States but had been abandoned.
He was very active in that; he was very active in truck farming, growing
thousands of acres. He was president of the South Carolina Produce Association,
which were the largest shippers of vegetables in the Carolinas, and he
also was the head of a company that ran a chain of general merchandise
stores and a wholesale business on the various islands, and he was the
head of an ice manufacturing company.
Beginning in 1920 with the great decline in commodity prices, especially
first cotton, the farm depression really set in there around 1922, and
continued without abatement until after, or the beginning of World War
II. So he, like most of the other people there, were practically completely
liquidated, but then had started over again and had made a fair comeback.
He was very interested in public affairs. He served as a member of the
city government; he served during his last years as chairman of the Beaufort
County Welfare Board; and after he was
seventy he retired from business
and gave most of his time until his death at the age of eighty-four to
public causes in the United States, especially in his part of the country;
but also following the advent of Mr. Hitler to the problem of Jewish refugees
and all of the causes that related to the establishment of Israel. Actually,
he died instantaneously at the age of eighty-four while making the third
of three speeches in New York City on behalf of the United Jewish Appeal,
at which time I got a wonderful letter from President Truman.
The only reason I mention this is that I got a very early introduction
into public service and the public interest, and I always said that I
learned more from my father than from anybody else about what I call social
responsibility. And the man I learned most from about courage in public
office was Senator Robert F. Wagner; and the man I got the most from on
the score of intellectual integrity was Professor Rexford G. Tugwell,
and I'll come back to him in other connections because he was so active
in the New Deal.
My mother was also very active. She was vice president of the South Carolina
Parent-Teacher's Association, very active in all types of civic affairs.
In 1924 I came north and entered Columbia University, where I majored
in economics, graduating in 1928. It was there I first got to know Professor
Rex Tugwell. From 1928 to 1931 I went to the Harvard Law School, graduating
in 1931. I then had an offer for a job in a leading New York law firm,
Chadbourne, Stanchfield, and Levy, which was one of the outstanding firms
in New York at the time, but for some reason decided instead to go back
to Columbia and study economics, particularly because I had the opportunity
to do some work for Professor Tugwell, who was then beginning to make
his contacts and do work for somebody who at that time was Governor Franklin
D. Roosevelt. So from 1931 to early 1933 I was at Columbia doing graduate
work in economics. I completed my requirements for the doctorate, but
got so busy from 1933 forward that I never wrote my thesis, never regret
that I didn't.
I held three jobs there at the time. One was as an assistant or instructor
in economics; one was doing studies for the general education board of
the Rockefeller Foundation; and one was writing some books with Tugwell
and others, which were published although my name did not get on them.
One was a study of American economic life and the means of its improvement,
[American Economic Life and the Means of its Improvement] which
published after I came to Washington, and which I did really most
of the work on, because Tugwell was so busy with Governor Roosevelt. This
was an effort to readjust economic teaching to the realities of economic
life and still represents my idea of how economics should be taught on
the college and university level.
Parenthetically, I think that the way economics actually is taught at
the college and university level is atrocious and explains a great deal
of the alienation of the young people from the kind of education they
are getting, because it is so remote from life, and as I shall point out
later, this also has an impact upon the recruitment, the fruits of the
recruitment of membership on the Council of Economic Advisers, and the
Council of Economic Advisers' staff, which unfortunately is becoming increasing
an inbred process, where the recruitment is almost entirely from one narrow
school of professional economists who really make the choices, although
the President does nominally. Truman didn't do it that way, and I'll come
back to that.
In early 1933, I came down to Washington with Professor Tugwell at the
very beginning of the New Deal, and for a very short period of time, in
fact, only about two weeks, I was employed as an attorney in the Agricultural
Adjustment Administration. The reason for that was that although Tugwell
wanted me to work with him, he thought that I could get better compensation
if I was set up in the legal department, but I never actually received
any salary because I left the job before the Agricultural Adjustment Administration
was finally approved.
There was one interesting comment on my interview with Jerome Frank,
who had been picked to be general counsel of the triple A. I came in to
interview him and we had never met before arid I sat down and he said,
"What do you know?"
I said, "I know 'Cotton Ed' [Ellison D.] Smith." Cotton Ed Smith was
chairman of the Senate Committee on Agriculture and was violently opposed
to the New Deal and all its works even at that early date, but had been,
as was James F. Byrnes, a lifelong friend of my father's.
Jerome said, "You know Cotton Ed Smith. Let's go."
We jumped into a cab and we went up to see Cotton Ed Smith and naturally
he gave me a very cordial reception.
We got back in the cab and on the way back Frank said to me, "How would
$4,000 a year be as a starter?"
Well, this was all the money in the world at that time. I looked out
over the Washington Monument and I said, "I think that will be all right."
But as I say, I never got any of it.
During those first two weeks I became very much involved in the drafting
of the National Industrial Recovery Act, and was part of a group including
Jerome Frank, Harold G. Moulton, the president of the Brookings Institution,
John Dickinson, the Assistant Secretary of Commerce, and Simon H. Rifkind,
who had been for six years up to that time, legislative assistant to Senator
Wagner. And I had a good deal to do with the drafting of the act. I also
met with a number of trade association lawyers who were interested in
the act at that time.
HESS: How is an act like that drawn up?
KEYSERLING: Well, this act started as a trade association act. The original
draft of the act grew out of the so-called Gerard Swope plan for Recovery.
It was really a draft at that time because it hadn't been introduced as
a bill, to suspend the anti-trust laws and to enable cooperation among
trade associations to stabilize prices and wages and to increase employment.
This original idea, which had come from the Swope plan had probably been
formulated into language by two leading trade association lawyers. One
was Gilbert H. Montague, who happened to be also the attorney for the
Rockefellers; and the other
one was a prominent New York lawyer by the
name of David Podell.
Well, anyhow, we got started working, and we met over in the Brookings
Institution office, and we worked on it for several weeks. Then we had
a meeting in Senator Wagner's office at which I was present, along with
Jerome Frank; Henry Wallace, the Secretary of Agriculture; Professor Tugwell;
Winfield Riefler, who at that time was head of the Central Statistical
Board and later became prominent as an economist, and a few others. We
discussed this for an hour or two and then Senator Wagner was sort of
tired and he said, "Well, I guess that's all we can do today."
And I said, "Well, I don't want to leave here with the thought that we
are all in agreement. I don't think this is the main approach at all.
I think the act has got to do something about improving wages, about improving
labor conditions, about protecting collective bargaining so that it will
be in better balance, and so we will have a stimulation of consumer interest
and consumer buying, or otherwise we're not going to get recovery."
The Senator was very much interested in that and a week later I got a
call from Si Rifkind, who as I say, had been the Senator's legislative
assistant for six years.
He was going back to New York to work exclusively
in the Senator's law firm, and that's how I went over to work with Senator
Wagner as his legislative assistant, where I stayed for four years, technically,
although I did an immense amount of later work with him through 1946.
It was in his office and under his direction that we rounded out the
drafting of the National Industrial Recovery Act, because with rare exceptions,
he insisted that the drafting of bills that he introduced be done in his
We rounded out the provisions of that act in about the form that it finally
passed. Then we added another title, which dealt with public works, and
which was the foundation of the original Public Works Program under Harold
Ickes, the so-called 3.3 billion dollar Public Works Program, which later
branched out into civil works and Federal Emergency Relief Administration
and so forth, especially because Senator Wagner for a number of previous
years from the beginning of the depression had been introducing bills
on emergency relief and on public works. It was in his office that I drafted
the actual provisions of the public works section with some help. The
way we arrived at the three billion, three hundred million dollar figure
was that this was the total of the public works
projects in his files,
which had been collected over the years in connection with the introduction
of public works legislation.
Then the bill went to hearings before the Senate Finance Committee and
then it went out on the floor. Senator Wagner was the sole Senate sponsor
of the act. It was very vigorously debated. He made a very long opening
talk on it which I prepared, because I was then working for him, which
covered about equally the economics of the whole situation and an argument
in favor of the constitutionality of the act. I mention this because all
the way through from 1933 until today, my economic training and my legal
training have sort of interpenetrated on public problems that involved
both in varying degrees.
Now, after the National Industrial Recovery Act was passed in the summer
of 1933, it was found almost impossible to enforce the collective bargaining
provisions under Section 7a of that act. Industry was opposed to them;
Hugh Johnson, who was the Administrator of the NRA, was opposed to them;
Donald Richberg, who was Hugh Johnson's counsel, was opposed to them;
President Roosevelt didn't understand them and set up a large number of
special boards, an automobile board and a steel board and
all kinds of
boards, to try to vindicate by so-called mediation a statutory right,
which you can never do.
So, in the fall of 1933, I was walking along the street with some friends.
I remember it. It was a snowy day, and I got the idea that perhaps Section
7a ought to be translated into a per