DEPARTMENT OF STATE MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
DATE: February 8, 1951
SUBJECT: United States-New Zealand Relations and Other Matters
PARTICIPANTS: Prime Minister Holland, New Zealand Sir Carl Berendsen, New Zealand Ambassador Mr. A. D. McIntosh, Permanent Head of the Prime Minister's Department and Secretary of External Affairs, New Zealand Secretary Acheson Mr. Elbert Mathews, SOA Mr. Hayden Raynor, BNA
COPIES TO: U BNA G E - Mr. Thorp EUR American Embassy, Wellington FE - Mr. Rusk American Embassy, London NEA - McGhee
General
The Prime Minister opened the conversation by stating that this was the first time he had been in the United States in his present capacity. He said he wished to extend the compliments of his Government to the American people, to the President and to the Secretary for all of whom his Government and people had the highest regard. After a further exchange of amenities the Prime Minister talked for some time, making the following major points:
1. New Zealand is British, 90 to 95 per cent of the population being of British extraction, and proud of it. Despite this affinity for the British people and for the United Kingdom they have the warmest regard for the United States and our people and realize that the security of New Zealand is largely dependent on the United States.
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2. In the light of this British background the Prime Minister made a special appeal that we understand the British and not allow criticisms on either side to come between us. The Prime Minister in this part of his remarks was obviously thinking of Far Eastern questions. He returned to this point several times during the discussion.
He said we should understand and make allowance for the fact that the British at the present time do not have a stable Government. Labor has a majority but does not have a large enough majority to have the power to govern effectively. The Secretary commented that we were fully conscious of the difficulties of the British Government including age and illness of some of its leading members. The Prime Minister expressed the highest regard for Mr. Churchill with whom he had had a long talk while in London. He expressed the view that following an election, as to the timing of which he did not venture an opinion, there would be a coalition in the United Kingdom and that the men at the top would be drawn from the best of both parties and that then we would see a much firmer and more vigorous Government.
During the course of this part of our discussion the Prime Minister painted the background of the relationship among the British family of nations, pointing to the fact that three members were now Asiatic and the importance of maintaining this situation in the world. Despite this he was critical, however, of the present British Government yielding too much to India at the expense of other factors.
3. New Zealand is asking nothing of the United States at the moment.
4. On the contrary New Zealand would like to know what we feel they should do. If we will let New Zealand know what we believe they should do, the Prime Minister will do the best he can to carry it out.
5. With respect to the problem of the defense of New Zealand the Prime Minister said that New Zealand in contrast to Australia was a little out of the line of direct attack and hence the likelihood of a direct attack was remote. He thought New Zealand could have in the event of emergency one division in addition to naval and air contingents which he said was a lot for a nation of a little under two million people. He thought it would be a shame to have them tied up in the defense of their own area where attack was unlikely.
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He therefore felt that as in the past they could best be utilized in some other theater. He said that to make this possible New Zealand would have to know, in the event the unlikely occurred and they were attacked, that someone, preferable the United States, would "give them a hand". In this part of the discussion he said that when attack seemed imminent in the last war New Zealand had not pulled its troops back from the Near East and help had been forthcoming with the result that the attack was averted.
Kashmir
The Secretary said in view of the conversation yesterday at the station that he would be glad to discuss this question and hear the views of the Prime Minister on it in the light of his concern and that he had asked Mr. Mathews to join the meeting as he was handling this problem for us. In summary the Prime Minister explained rather fully the discussion on this question which took place at the time of the recent Commonwealth Meeting in London. The Prime Minister expressed the opinion that ways had been found to meet in a reasonable way the major points made by Mr. Nehru and that he could not escape the conviction that Mr. Nehru did not desire a settlement of this question. The Prime Minister stated that he viewed the matter with great seriousness feeling that the only alternative to finding the solution promptly might well be warfare between the two peoples.
Japanese Treaty
The Secretary said he wanted to refer to this matter although he understood that New Zealand knew our detailed views and that Mr. Dulles would be discussing them further with the New Zealand Government on his present trip. The Prime Minister stated that he thought New Zealand would have little difficulty with the treaty although they would want to be certain that appropriate controls were placed on rearmament. He said he was convinced that it was necessary and that in fact in any event Japan and western Germany would rearm and it was better to handle the rearmament under our control than to permit it to follow a course over which we might not have control. The Prime Minister added however that if Prime Minister Menzies of Australia had known he was talking to the Secretary today he would have asked him to point out that there was very strong public opinion on the question of the Japanese treaty in Australia.
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He said it was very important that Mr. Dulles go through with his plan to visit New Zealand even though New Zealand sent someone to Australia permitting tripartite discussions. The Prime Minister said that if Mr. Dulles did not come to New Zealand the disappointment in New Zealand would be very great. The Secretary replied that it was his understanding that Mr. Dulles definitely planned to go to New Zealand.
Wheat for India
The Secretary referred to this matter and said that we are on the point of requesting Congress for an appropriation to cover one million tons and authorization to cover another million tons. The Secretary said that there would be some opposition to this in the Congress because of the political difficulties we have been having on Far Eastern questions but that he felt confident that the Administration view would prevail. The Prime Minister expressed the view that this magnanimous action on the part of the United States was typical of our other generous actions in the post-war period. He seemed deeply impressed.
General
Before leaving the Prime Minister reiterated the fact that New Zealand had no request to make of us today, and that on the other hand she wanted to help in any way she could. He repeated the appeal that we make every effort to understand the British difficulties and not permit friction to develop between the United States and the United Kingdom.